In the second episode of this season of Women STAR Laura Louise spoke to Afghani LGBTQAI+ activist, Basira Paigham, about the risks our community faces in Afghanistan every day, and her experience of moving to Ireland as a refugee.
You can listen below or you can listen on Acast, iTunes, or Spotify. Links:
Acast: https://bit.ly/acastBasiraEp2
Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3FThVnP
iTunes: https://apple.co/3zLhIyQ
You can listen below or you can listen on Acast, iTunes, or Spotify. Links:
Acast: https://bit.ly/acastBasiraEp2
Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3FThVnP
iTunes: https://apple.co/3zLhIyQ
Transcription
Intro
Hello and welcome back to the podcast! For today's episode Laura Louise spoke to Afghani LGBTQAI+ activist, Basira paigham, about the risks our community faces in Afghanistan every day, and her experience of moving to Ireland as a refugee. Basira begins by introducing herself and telling Laura Louise about her move to Ireland.
Basira 0:00
I am Basira Paigham, I come from Afghanistan. I came to Ireland last year on October I am Afghan LGBTQI rights activist and also the founder of first official organization for Afghan LGBTQI people.
Laura Louise 0:17
Wow. That's really, really impressive. You're an impressive person. I read a lot about your activism. So it's a huge honor to have you here today speaking. Thank you so much. So how has it been for you so far, being in Ireland, you're coming up to your first year anniversary?
Basira 0:37
Well, when I came to Ireland, I wasn't in good mental health condition. Because when Afghanistan was took over by Taliban rebellions, it was very hard for me to leave Afghanistan. At the beginning, I didn't have the intention to leave my country. Because all of my plans, my goals were related to my own country. Because of my security, because of the risk, danger and all this problems related to my security, I left my homeland and I came to Ireland, it was very hard for me to accept that I left Afghanistan and I came to new country. For months, I was struggling, like my soul was in Afghanistan. But my body was here in Ireland. as far as adaption is, I think adapting to the situation is one of our nature, human nature. So gradually, I accepted that everything has been changed. And I'm supposed to start my new life in Ireland, and make the Ireland my home. Yeah.
Laura Louise 1:55
That's incredible. I'm really struck by what you said about your soul still being in Afghanistan while your body was here in Ireland, and but you're starting to build a life here. It sounds like I was what kind of things have you started to do with your days?
Basira 2:10
Oh, well, first of all, I start looking for job. And then I start meeting people making friends. And I moved to a house and now I'm thinking to decorated that.
Laura Louise 2:33
Thank you. So you mentioned about the Taliban? Could you tell us please about the current situation in Afghanistan, for anybody that doesn't know and especially for LGBTQI+ people and women as well, what's going on there?
Basira 2:50
We all are, as we all are witnessed that situation in Afghanistan is very tough. People are struggling with poverty, with security, with healthcare, with all these problems. The current government is not responsive. They are not providing social welfare for people, they are not providing education, health care, any other relative primary needs of the people. So it's very hard. 97% of Afghanistan, people are in threshold of poverty, and to hunger. International communities or international humanitarian organization have stopped supporting Afghan people because of the rebellion group who got the control of Afghanistan. So situation is very tough for Afghanistan, people overall, especially for LGBTQI people, it's much tougher because the Taliban are trying to catch anyone who is from LGBT community or supporting LGBTQI people. They think that religiously, it's not illegal, it's not good to be LGBTQI community from LGBTQI community be a gay. Why? Because they think in Islam, only male and feminine exist, not a gay people. So if you are a gay, they will kill you because you're a homosexual. And the killing will not be us, like they are doing with other people. They will try to collapse a wall on them, or they will stone in the public. Not only the Taliban are looking to kill LGBTQI people, even the people, the relatives, the neighbors, the friends of LGBT people, they all are standing against them. Even they cannot go out to provide for themselves food. We know that a trans woman transmit the characteristic characteristics are shown. So everyone can easily recognize that they are gay. And it's very hard for them to go out, survive. education, healthcare is very far even, they cannot afford for themselves food. In one hand, in another hand, the awareness of people is very low about sexual orientation. We have a lot of gay people in Afghanistan, who really don't know who they are, because they don't have information.
Laura Louise 5:47
So it's incredibly complex. There's the very real and very terrifying actual risk to life, where a person's life can be ended through violence, but then also way through a person's life can be ended or damaged through not being able to access healthcare, food, and an all the way through to a person's internal pain for not understanding or knowing who they are because they can't access information. And Basira, you are an activist working with the LGBTI plus community weren't you? Sorry, not past tense, present tense. And how was that for you in Afghanistan when the Taliban started to get power?
Basira 6:29
Yeah, before the Taliban, during the former government, former Republic government, however, there wasn't any specific raw law or regulation, which supports LGBTQI people rights, their identification, but still, there were some opportunities that they could enjoy from their private life. They could do makeup, they could gather with friends, because they could dance in parties. They could have fun. They could they could work. But now everything has changed. Even ordinary people cannot work. So for individual people, it's completely impossible to work to survive, to have fun, nothing. So the condition have changed 100% in a negative manner,
Laura Louise 7:24
and so quickly, as wel.
Basira 7:28
Yes, only just one signature between Taliban and US government changed the destiny of more than 30 million people.
Laura Louise 7:39
And did you see that change happen instantly? Or was it a gradual change to the life the daily life you had or the safety of people?
Basira 7:48
Well, Taliban progress and Taliban empowering process have been started since 2005. In last two decades, the former government the former Republic government, during the presidency of Karzai and during the presidency of Ashraf Ghani had a lot of chances to make a sustainable development process to make a sustainable and to very, like, powerful from grassroots river of the society. But they didn't. The reason was corruption. And also, there was problem or all discrimination based on the language, best geographical locations of Afghanistan, based the tribes of Afghanistan, discrimination against the gender. This all corruption and discriminations caused for rapidly collapse of former Republic government. So empowering Taliban and collapsing of the former Republic government was very gradual, and easy to start from since 2005.
Laura Louise 9:11
Thank you so much. It's really, to hear it from somebody who's from Afghanistan, you know, it's so different to reading on the news. And so thank you so much for giving that insight, like your personal insight into what that was, like. You meant if you're comfortable to talk about it, you mentioned also, or sorry, I read also that you were an activist for a gender as well. I was wondering what the situation is for women, or how you find it as a woman being in Afghanistan recently before you left?
Basira 9:44
Before leaving Afghanistan before Taliban came to power. In 2018, I founded the first gender committee in Samangan province. And that committee will was working for woman participation in governance, and also making the work environment safe place for women, especially in governmental officials or governmental organizations. So, this activism, this advocacy process was very effective. Moreover, I was advocating for all women of Afghanistan, and I represented Afghanistan woman in different international platforms, in conferences, in trainings, and through the media, I was advocating for a woman for stopping forced marriage for stopping depriving of Afghanistan woman girls from education. And I was advocating for job of more opportunities, and also the worker, right for a woman, for them to have a job to work to become economically independent.
Laura Louise 11:07
That's incredible. And it sounds like you had a lot of success at that time before you had to leave. What did you experience opposition to the activism for women? Or was there a lot of support?
Basira 11:24
Well, in Afghanistan, if any woman, any woman stands, still struggles and fights for woman rights for equality, that's very hard, they really need to start from very, very like, from the zero point, because I'm sure any woman who stands for equality in Afghanistan, or same to Afghanistan, other Middle East countries, the first people who oppose them who will try to stop them, they will be the most close one, the closest one. So it's not very easy. There are very less woman in Afghanistan, who has the support of the people in around for activism, for standing for fighting for equality. So of course, I faced a lot of obstacles or a lot of problems. But I didn't give up. Even now, especially for my activism for LGBTQI people. Almost I can say that all of my friends, all of my relatives, all of people I didn't know from Afghanistan, community, they all are against me. They stopped contact with me, they blocked me. They were using like a abusive insulting words against me. But I didn't, I didn't take care of that. So I want to keep going ahead for doing what is right, for doing what is good for equality, for human rights, for a better future of humanity, especially for the people who need the most from LGBTQIA community of Afghanistan, who really need the support. So I will do what is the right, and I won't stop that, even if there are a lot of obstacles, but I won't stop.
Laura Louise 13:33
How do you keep going when your activism is supporting and helping so many people, but this was a high price for you know, being blocked by your friends, your family, or having to move across the world? How do you keep going?
Basira 13:51
Honestly, it wasn't easy, even now, it's not easy. It's very, very hard. But what really gives me the energy to keep standing and to keep going forward is my enthusiasm for equality, for equal rights for all human, especially the people who need the most support. So that enthusiasm is making me to keep going ahead.
Laura Louise 14:20
You are an activist to your very core. Um, when we were preparing for this, you mentioned that something you'd like to talk about is also the refugee experience, that it's important to remember, not just the people who are still in Afghanistan, but all the Afghans who had to leave in the last year. What would you like to say on that?
Basira 14:42
Well, I'm in contact with a lot of Afghan LGBTQI people who became refugee in Western countries or in neighbouring countries of Afghanistan. Among them. There are many LGBTQI people of Afghanistan who have been evacuated by advocacy of our organization, Afghan LGBT, and buy our support, so it's very hard for them because they're supposed to, they're supposed to start the life from zero. Depression or loneliness, language, new language, new culture, new food, new lifestyle, everything is very hard for them to handle. So we are trying to support them by by giving them advices through our organization by talking to the so yeah.
Laura Louise 15:38
It just blows my mind that you're saying, we are trying to support them while you're going through that herself like you are one of the people who's going through that. So how incredible. And then about building a new life and a new country? What do you think of the situation for LGBTI+ people in Ireland?
Basira 16:00
Well, I can say that, and I found Iran, the paradise for gay people, honestly, because the government has a specific policy strategy for gay people. The government is supportive. So it's amazing when officially the government supports LGBT people. Moreover, activism of LGBT community is amazing. It's really great. And the people are supportive. They have good education, they have great awareness about gay people about their rights about respecting them. However, we have a lot of positive points, but it's still I think, it's not enough, there should be a lot of things done. Because recently there was an issue about an opposition regarding the participation of trans woman in one of the sports. So it means that still there should be done a lot of thing about the trans rights because trans rights or human rights.
Laura Louise 17:15
Absolutely trans rights are human rights. And there has also been an increase in violence against the LGBTQ plus community this year. And we've seen definitely echoes, of I always feel like that sometimes actions in Ireland get influenced by things that are happening in the US. And as all the bills the like anti queer and anti trans bills and legislation have come in around the country. I see that seems to coincide with an increase in violence and kind of anger and hatred towards towards the community here. I do have a lot of faith in Ireland, though, and the people to stand up I think it's really important that even though we have some much here, that we don't become complacent, because, unfortunately, we shall get to be complacent ratio, guests get to live our lives as a happy, safe people. And but unfortunately, if we become complacent, these things start to creep in. So he said, there's still work to be done. What do you think we could keep doing here to ensure our safety and the Ireland is a paradise for gay people?
Basira 18:25
Well, I think whenever human being thinks that it's enough, I think that's the point of the death and the kind of the point of finishing everything. So that would be great that if the island people Island LGBTQI community, an activist thinks that it's not enough, even if Island is a paradise, when we compare it with other countries, but still, it's not absolute paradise. So there should be a lot of things done stopping activism or thinking that it's enough. Would it be very horrifying. Because everything could be go backwards in a blink of eye as it's happening in the USA. So really, really the activist, the LGBTQI activist people in Ireland to organizations should keep going ahead, should update the their awareness, advocacy plans and goals. They should exist it exists all of them to improve it to make the society more safe place for gay peopleI
Laura Louise 19:51
I agree thank you so much for Basirea and like you said the blink of an eye like what what's happened in Afghanistan as well. So we've seen a lot of examples in this year and towards the end of last year about how things can change so quickly. That's not to put the fear in anybody. But to encourage people to keep being an activist where possible, and there's lots of different types of activism. I'm not great for things like protesting and things and stuff like that, I think you can be a quiet activist, you can be an activist by showing support and visibility, by being an ally, by educating yourself and being able to have conversations, there's lots of different types of activism. And speaking of educating ourselves, what ways or do you have any suggestions for how people in Ireland could educate ourselves about our LGBTQ plus family in Afghanistan, and in countries where the situation isn't as good as here, and how we can learn, learn more, and also support our family in different countries too.
Basira 20:58
Yeah, I think supporting LGBT community will be will be, it would be great if they start from their families by supporting their gay kids, gay child. So moreover, they can participate to the programs of awareness or advocacy for trans people, for gay people, by organizations, and also standing with them in case there is any problem of challenge against them in the society. Even if that problem be very small, but still, supporting the equality standing for equality is very appreciated. And that's really needed the most in our society.
Laura Louise 21:48
Thank you so much. They just have a few questions about mental health. And it's, you know, I know something you're very passionate about. And the first thing you mentioned, when we started here as well. There are at the moment, a lot of people seeking asylum in the country, I think I read an article the other day where it was 43,000 people, I think, at the moment, so maybe somebody will be listening here. And relating to what you were saying about people that have had to build a new life and get used to everything, including friends, language, food. Do you have any tips for anybody who might be going through that right now? And wait, resilience? Maybe, ways to keep going to protect their mental health? Any suggestions?
Basira 22:36
Well, this is what I'm struggling myself, but I still, I usually read psychological books. And I try to update myself more about solutions, how to handle with stress with anxiety, and mental health issues. What I found helpful for myself is taking deep breaths, okay, walking, visiting new places, and sometimes listening to music, doing a meditation, eating healthy food, or hanging out with friends, if some of them do not have friends like me, they can be more social and make new friends, because it's not easy, but still, they can keep going, visiting new people using some apps. So yeah, by that, I think it will be great and it will be more helpful for them. The most important thing I would like to mention about the people who are struggling with mental health issues after becoming refugees, that accepting what happened, and accepting that some things and some points of our life story is finished. And we should accept and move on for new upcoming events in our life for the new chapter of our life. Accepting and moving on. Thank you.
Laura Louise 24:21
Thank you so much Basira. And I guess my last question would be about what do you hope for with your life in Ireland?
Basira 24:30
I hope I will keep my activism going on and I would love to be a good resident for Ireland government for Irish people. And I'd love to serve my energy, my skills, for making a better place for making positive change in Ireland, because Ireland is my home now. And this is one of my goals in Ireland and for Irish people. And honestly and sincerely, I'm really thankful from Ireland government and Irish people, for accepting for being the host of refugees around the world who have been through the toughest days of their life in their own country. Thank you so much for having us for supporting us.
Laura Louise 25:35
I feel like we're very lucky to have you here in Ireland Basira. And I feel like we've been very lucky to have you here on the podcast. Thank you so very much.
Basira 25:46
Thank you so much for the amazing program. Thank you.
Laura Louise 25:51
So Basira now you're going to read us an Afghani poem?
Basira 25:57
Yes. This poem is about my homeland, Afghanistan. The problems that refugees specially Afghan refugees face when they leave their country, their homeland, Afghanistan, so yeah, I will start Thank you. Thank you.
(Basira performs ‘Sar zamini man’ by Abutalib Muzafari).
Thank you.
Laura Louise 28:41
Thank you for Basira. Do you want to hug?
Basira 28:49
I hope one day there will be peace all over the world. And I hope one day all the companies which are manufacturing guns, weapons, they will be banned. And we, we should stop them. In case we do not stop those companies war will will be going around the world. If we stop it in one point, in another point the war will begin as it's happening in Ukraine. So there is not any doubt it might start in another country. In case the weapon and gun manufacturers be not stopped. If they be stopped, there will be peace. People will be saving their homeland and no one will be willing to live their homeland, no one will live their country, their family, their home. thank you.
Outro
Well, that's it for today, thanks for listening and we would like to say a special thank you to Basira for speaking to us for this episode. Dublin Lesbian Line is a support service for the LGBTQAI+ community in Ireland. DLL is run by volunteers and relies heavily on voluntary contributions so we would greatly appreciate any financial support you can offer. Before we go we want to say a big thank you to uber talented musician, Chris Gebhardt, for writing the new theme music of Women STAR and we want to thank Dublin Pride for sponsoring season two of Women STAR. And lastly, if you liked the podcast please spread the word! Thank you for listening and see you next time!
Hello and welcome back to the podcast! For today's episode Laura Louise spoke to Afghani LGBTQAI+ activist, Basira paigham, about the risks our community faces in Afghanistan every day, and her experience of moving to Ireland as a refugee. Basira begins by introducing herself and telling Laura Louise about her move to Ireland.
Basira 0:00
I am Basira Paigham, I come from Afghanistan. I came to Ireland last year on October I am Afghan LGBTQI rights activist and also the founder of first official organization for Afghan LGBTQI people.
Laura Louise 0:17
Wow. That's really, really impressive. You're an impressive person. I read a lot about your activism. So it's a huge honor to have you here today speaking. Thank you so much. So how has it been for you so far, being in Ireland, you're coming up to your first year anniversary?
Basira 0:37
Well, when I came to Ireland, I wasn't in good mental health condition. Because when Afghanistan was took over by Taliban rebellions, it was very hard for me to leave Afghanistan. At the beginning, I didn't have the intention to leave my country. Because all of my plans, my goals were related to my own country. Because of my security, because of the risk, danger and all this problems related to my security, I left my homeland and I came to Ireland, it was very hard for me to accept that I left Afghanistan and I came to new country. For months, I was struggling, like my soul was in Afghanistan. But my body was here in Ireland. as far as adaption is, I think adapting to the situation is one of our nature, human nature. So gradually, I accepted that everything has been changed. And I'm supposed to start my new life in Ireland, and make the Ireland my home. Yeah.
Laura Louise 1:55
That's incredible. I'm really struck by what you said about your soul still being in Afghanistan while your body was here in Ireland, and but you're starting to build a life here. It sounds like I was what kind of things have you started to do with your days?
Basira 2:10
Oh, well, first of all, I start looking for job. And then I start meeting people making friends. And I moved to a house and now I'm thinking to decorated that.
Laura Louise 2:33
Thank you. So you mentioned about the Taliban? Could you tell us please about the current situation in Afghanistan, for anybody that doesn't know and especially for LGBTQI+ people and women as well, what's going on there?
Basira 2:50
We all are, as we all are witnessed that situation in Afghanistan is very tough. People are struggling with poverty, with security, with healthcare, with all these problems. The current government is not responsive. They are not providing social welfare for people, they are not providing education, health care, any other relative primary needs of the people. So it's very hard. 97% of Afghanistan, people are in threshold of poverty, and to hunger. International communities or international humanitarian organization have stopped supporting Afghan people because of the rebellion group who got the control of Afghanistan. So situation is very tough for Afghanistan, people overall, especially for LGBTQI people, it's much tougher because the Taliban are trying to catch anyone who is from LGBT community or supporting LGBTQI people. They think that religiously, it's not illegal, it's not good to be LGBTQI community from LGBTQI community be a gay. Why? Because they think in Islam, only male and feminine exist, not a gay people. So if you are a gay, they will kill you because you're a homosexual. And the killing will not be us, like they are doing with other people. They will try to collapse a wall on them, or they will stone in the public. Not only the Taliban are looking to kill LGBTQI people, even the people, the relatives, the neighbors, the friends of LGBT people, they all are standing against them. Even they cannot go out to provide for themselves food. We know that a trans woman transmit the characteristic characteristics are shown. So everyone can easily recognize that they are gay. And it's very hard for them to go out, survive. education, healthcare is very far even, they cannot afford for themselves food. In one hand, in another hand, the awareness of people is very low about sexual orientation. We have a lot of gay people in Afghanistan, who really don't know who they are, because they don't have information.
Laura Louise 5:47
So it's incredibly complex. There's the very real and very terrifying actual risk to life, where a person's life can be ended through violence, but then also way through a person's life can be ended or damaged through not being able to access healthcare, food, and an all the way through to a person's internal pain for not understanding or knowing who they are because they can't access information. And Basira, you are an activist working with the LGBTI plus community weren't you? Sorry, not past tense, present tense. And how was that for you in Afghanistan when the Taliban started to get power?
Basira 6:29
Yeah, before the Taliban, during the former government, former Republic government, however, there wasn't any specific raw law or regulation, which supports LGBTQI people rights, their identification, but still, there were some opportunities that they could enjoy from their private life. They could do makeup, they could gather with friends, because they could dance in parties. They could have fun. They could they could work. But now everything has changed. Even ordinary people cannot work. So for individual people, it's completely impossible to work to survive, to have fun, nothing. So the condition have changed 100% in a negative manner,
Laura Louise 7:24
and so quickly, as wel.
Basira 7:28
Yes, only just one signature between Taliban and US government changed the destiny of more than 30 million people.
Laura Louise 7:39
And did you see that change happen instantly? Or was it a gradual change to the life the daily life you had or the safety of people?
Basira 7:48
Well, Taliban progress and Taliban empowering process have been started since 2005. In last two decades, the former government the former Republic government, during the presidency of Karzai and during the presidency of Ashraf Ghani had a lot of chances to make a sustainable development process to make a sustainable and to very, like, powerful from grassroots river of the society. But they didn't. The reason was corruption. And also, there was problem or all discrimination based on the language, best geographical locations of Afghanistan, based the tribes of Afghanistan, discrimination against the gender. This all corruption and discriminations caused for rapidly collapse of former Republic government. So empowering Taliban and collapsing of the former Republic government was very gradual, and easy to start from since 2005.
Laura Louise 9:11
Thank you so much. It's really, to hear it from somebody who's from Afghanistan, you know, it's so different to reading on the news. And so thank you so much for giving that insight, like your personal insight into what that was, like. You meant if you're comfortable to talk about it, you mentioned also, or sorry, I read also that you were an activist for a gender as well. I was wondering what the situation is for women, or how you find it as a woman being in Afghanistan recently before you left?
Basira 9:44
Before leaving Afghanistan before Taliban came to power. In 2018, I founded the first gender committee in Samangan province. And that committee will was working for woman participation in governance, and also making the work environment safe place for women, especially in governmental officials or governmental organizations. So, this activism, this advocacy process was very effective. Moreover, I was advocating for all women of Afghanistan, and I represented Afghanistan woman in different international platforms, in conferences, in trainings, and through the media, I was advocating for a woman for stopping forced marriage for stopping depriving of Afghanistan woman girls from education. And I was advocating for job of more opportunities, and also the worker, right for a woman, for them to have a job to work to become economically independent.
Laura Louise 11:07
That's incredible. And it sounds like you had a lot of success at that time before you had to leave. What did you experience opposition to the activism for women? Or was there a lot of support?
Basira 11:24
Well, in Afghanistan, if any woman, any woman stands, still struggles and fights for woman rights for equality, that's very hard, they really need to start from very, very like, from the zero point, because I'm sure any woman who stands for equality in Afghanistan, or same to Afghanistan, other Middle East countries, the first people who oppose them who will try to stop them, they will be the most close one, the closest one. So it's not very easy. There are very less woman in Afghanistan, who has the support of the people in around for activism, for standing for fighting for equality. So of course, I faced a lot of obstacles or a lot of problems. But I didn't give up. Even now, especially for my activism for LGBTQI people. Almost I can say that all of my friends, all of my relatives, all of people I didn't know from Afghanistan, community, they all are against me. They stopped contact with me, they blocked me. They were using like a abusive insulting words against me. But I didn't, I didn't take care of that. So I want to keep going ahead for doing what is right, for doing what is good for equality, for human rights, for a better future of humanity, especially for the people who need the most from LGBTQIA community of Afghanistan, who really need the support. So I will do what is the right, and I won't stop that, even if there are a lot of obstacles, but I won't stop.
Laura Louise 13:33
How do you keep going when your activism is supporting and helping so many people, but this was a high price for you know, being blocked by your friends, your family, or having to move across the world? How do you keep going?
Basira 13:51
Honestly, it wasn't easy, even now, it's not easy. It's very, very hard. But what really gives me the energy to keep standing and to keep going forward is my enthusiasm for equality, for equal rights for all human, especially the people who need the most support. So that enthusiasm is making me to keep going ahead.
Laura Louise 14:20
You are an activist to your very core. Um, when we were preparing for this, you mentioned that something you'd like to talk about is also the refugee experience, that it's important to remember, not just the people who are still in Afghanistan, but all the Afghans who had to leave in the last year. What would you like to say on that?
Basira 14:42
Well, I'm in contact with a lot of Afghan LGBTQI people who became refugee in Western countries or in neighbouring countries of Afghanistan. Among them. There are many LGBTQI people of Afghanistan who have been evacuated by advocacy of our organization, Afghan LGBT, and buy our support, so it's very hard for them because they're supposed to, they're supposed to start the life from zero. Depression or loneliness, language, new language, new culture, new food, new lifestyle, everything is very hard for them to handle. So we are trying to support them by by giving them advices through our organization by talking to the so yeah.
Laura Louise 15:38
It just blows my mind that you're saying, we are trying to support them while you're going through that herself like you are one of the people who's going through that. So how incredible. And then about building a new life and a new country? What do you think of the situation for LGBTI+ people in Ireland?
Basira 16:00
Well, I can say that, and I found Iran, the paradise for gay people, honestly, because the government has a specific policy strategy for gay people. The government is supportive. So it's amazing when officially the government supports LGBT people. Moreover, activism of LGBT community is amazing. It's really great. And the people are supportive. They have good education, they have great awareness about gay people about their rights about respecting them. However, we have a lot of positive points, but it's still I think, it's not enough, there should be a lot of things done. Because recently there was an issue about an opposition regarding the participation of trans woman in one of the sports. So it means that still there should be done a lot of thing about the trans rights because trans rights or human rights.
Laura Louise 17:15
Absolutely trans rights are human rights. And there has also been an increase in violence against the LGBTQ plus community this year. And we've seen definitely echoes, of I always feel like that sometimes actions in Ireland get influenced by things that are happening in the US. And as all the bills the like anti queer and anti trans bills and legislation have come in around the country. I see that seems to coincide with an increase in violence and kind of anger and hatred towards towards the community here. I do have a lot of faith in Ireland, though, and the people to stand up I think it's really important that even though we have some much here, that we don't become complacent, because, unfortunately, we shall get to be complacent ratio, guests get to live our lives as a happy, safe people. And but unfortunately, if we become complacent, these things start to creep in. So he said, there's still work to be done. What do you think we could keep doing here to ensure our safety and the Ireland is a paradise for gay people?
Basira 18:25
Well, I think whenever human being thinks that it's enough, I think that's the point of the death and the kind of the point of finishing everything. So that would be great that if the island people Island LGBTQI community, an activist thinks that it's not enough, even if Island is a paradise, when we compare it with other countries, but still, it's not absolute paradise. So there should be a lot of things done stopping activism or thinking that it's enough. Would it be very horrifying. Because everything could be go backwards in a blink of eye as it's happening in the USA. So really, really the activist, the LGBTQI activist people in Ireland to organizations should keep going ahead, should update the their awareness, advocacy plans and goals. They should exist it exists all of them to improve it to make the society more safe place for gay peopleI
Laura Louise 19:51
I agree thank you so much for Basirea and like you said the blink of an eye like what what's happened in Afghanistan as well. So we've seen a lot of examples in this year and towards the end of last year about how things can change so quickly. That's not to put the fear in anybody. But to encourage people to keep being an activist where possible, and there's lots of different types of activism. I'm not great for things like protesting and things and stuff like that, I think you can be a quiet activist, you can be an activist by showing support and visibility, by being an ally, by educating yourself and being able to have conversations, there's lots of different types of activism. And speaking of educating ourselves, what ways or do you have any suggestions for how people in Ireland could educate ourselves about our LGBTQ plus family in Afghanistan, and in countries where the situation isn't as good as here, and how we can learn, learn more, and also support our family in different countries too.
Basira 20:58
Yeah, I think supporting LGBT community will be will be, it would be great if they start from their families by supporting their gay kids, gay child. So moreover, they can participate to the programs of awareness or advocacy for trans people, for gay people, by organizations, and also standing with them in case there is any problem of challenge against them in the society. Even if that problem be very small, but still, supporting the equality standing for equality is very appreciated. And that's really needed the most in our society.
Laura Louise 21:48
Thank you so much. They just have a few questions about mental health. And it's, you know, I know something you're very passionate about. And the first thing you mentioned, when we started here as well. There are at the moment, a lot of people seeking asylum in the country, I think I read an article the other day where it was 43,000 people, I think, at the moment, so maybe somebody will be listening here. And relating to what you were saying about people that have had to build a new life and get used to everything, including friends, language, food. Do you have any tips for anybody who might be going through that right now? And wait, resilience? Maybe, ways to keep going to protect their mental health? Any suggestions?
Basira 22:36
Well, this is what I'm struggling myself, but I still, I usually read psychological books. And I try to update myself more about solutions, how to handle with stress with anxiety, and mental health issues. What I found helpful for myself is taking deep breaths, okay, walking, visiting new places, and sometimes listening to music, doing a meditation, eating healthy food, or hanging out with friends, if some of them do not have friends like me, they can be more social and make new friends, because it's not easy, but still, they can keep going, visiting new people using some apps. So yeah, by that, I think it will be great and it will be more helpful for them. The most important thing I would like to mention about the people who are struggling with mental health issues after becoming refugees, that accepting what happened, and accepting that some things and some points of our life story is finished. And we should accept and move on for new upcoming events in our life for the new chapter of our life. Accepting and moving on. Thank you.
Laura Louise 24:21
Thank you so much Basira. And I guess my last question would be about what do you hope for with your life in Ireland?
Basira 24:30
I hope I will keep my activism going on and I would love to be a good resident for Ireland government for Irish people. And I'd love to serve my energy, my skills, for making a better place for making positive change in Ireland, because Ireland is my home now. And this is one of my goals in Ireland and for Irish people. And honestly and sincerely, I'm really thankful from Ireland government and Irish people, for accepting for being the host of refugees around the world who have been through the toughest days of their life in their own country. Thank you so much for having us for supporting us.
Laura Louise 25:35
I feel like we're very lucky to have you here in Ireland Basira. And I feel like we've been very lucky to have you here on the podcast. Thank you so very much.
Basira 25:46
Thank you so much for the amazing program. Thank you.
Laura Louise 25:51
So Basira now you're going to read us an Afghani poem?
Basira 25:57
Yes. This poem is about my homeland, Afghanistan. The problems that refugees specially Afghan refugees face when they leave their country, their homeland, Afghanistan, so yeah, I will start Thank you. Thank you.
(Basira performs ‘Sar zamini man’ by Abutalib Muzafari).
Thank you.
Laura Louise 28:41
Thank you for Basira. Do you want to hug?
Basira 28:49
I hope one day there will be peace all over the world. And I hope one day all the companies which are manufacturing guns, weapons, they will be banned. And we, we should stop them. In case we do not stop those companies war will will be going around the world. If we stop it in one point, in another point the war will begin as it's happening in Ukraine. So there is not any doubt it might start in another country. In case the weapon and gun manufacturers be not stopped. If they be stopped, there will be peace. People will be saving their homeland and no one will be willing to live their homeland, no one will live their country, their family, their home. thank you.
Outro
Well, that's it for today, thanks for listening and we would like to say a special thank you to Basira for speaking to us for this episode. Dublin Lesbian Line is a support service for the LGBTQAI+ community in Ireland. DLL is run by volunteers and relies heavily on voluntary contributions so we would greatly appreciate any financial support you can offer. Before we go we want to say a big thank you to uber talented musician, Chris Gebhardt, for writing the new theme music of Women STAR and we want to thank Dublin Pride for sponsoring season two of Women STAR. And lastly, if you liked the podcast please spread the word! Thank you for listening and see you next time!
